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mitzi_face
... because otherwise I will be one of those barn people.

Here's the situation: there's a kid at our barn who has this little black mare on a year-long off-property lease. I have never met the horse's owner. She got the horse in the fall, not long before things froze up solid. We have no indoor arena so, like most of the horses here, the mare has had considerable time off this winter. Prior to the kid getting her, the mare spent several years hanging out in a pasture, was sent for a month's professional training (I'm not clear on whether this was a tuneup or she had just been started then), and then hung out in a pasture for several more months. The kid is about fourteen and low-key to the point of seeming spacey. She part-leased the barn owner's old palomino gelding for a while, but our paths never crossed so I had no idea what sort of rider she was.

Over the winter the barn owner expressed frustration more than once at the black mare's ground manners. (This is not a professional barn with an instructor or trainer on tap, it's a hobby barn intended for hobby horses. The only horse they've asked to leave since I've been there was a big jumper who kept running over people on his way in and out of the barn.) The owner believed that, since the kid couldn't ride, she wasn't coming out to the barn and her green mare wasn't getting handled enough.

It's coming spring and warming up, so the kid has started coming out more.

And the black mare's manners are steadily getting worse.

No kidding, when we had the massage clinic a few weeks ago the mare would at least stand while the clinician handled her. But yesterday, when both Mitzi and the black mare were on the cross-ties and the kid was tacking up, the black mare pawed and went on whenever she was left standing for more than a minute (again, there were people and horses in the alleyway, it wasn't like she'd been left alone.) And then when the kid went to bridle her--the mare pulled loose from her, bulled into Mitzi (who thank God didn't kick) and then dove through an open stall door. The kid went calmly in after her, got the bridle on, led her into the alleyway with the reins up over her neck as if she was about to mount. A few seconds later the mare pulled loose again, while the kid was holding her, and ducked into another stall. Same thing: kid calmly went after her as if there was nothing unusual about being unable to control your horse while holding her in the barn.

And then it happened again. The kid was no more prepared for the third instance than she had been for the first. She didn't even take the reins down from around her neck, just acted as though she could lead her safely from the one side of the rein even after it had been demonstrated that she could not. It doesn't seem to have occurred to her that her green mare is not the barn owner's elderly dead-broke gelding, and it doesn't seem to have occurred to her that if something is clearly not working you really should, you know, try something else.

[As I write this I suddenly remember that last week when we were out at the same time, the mare broke loose and bolted out into the turnout area with her saddle half-done-up, pushing past Mitzi and ducking under a cross-tie as she went. I didn't see how she got loose but I thought at the time it was an isolated incident. I am now seeing it as evidence that the mare is getting no leadership and so she's decided she's in charge.]

Coach Girl and her friend were both present, with their new green gelding, and neither of them said a word. So after the kid went outside with the mare, I said to her, "Obviously, since you said nothing, you're no longer giving her lessons, but is she taking them from anyone?" Coach Girl and her friend both gave me big frustrated eyes and I suddenly remembered that when the black mare arrived at the barn, all green and hard to handle and "what the hell were this kid's parents thinking?"--I had forgotten that last fall the kid had a lot of trouble with the mare--Coach Girl gave her lessons and rode the mare once or twice a week. Which was a really good idea, until the kid decided she didn't want anyone else riding her horse.

So apparently the most recent development has been this: Coach Girl spoke to the kid about the fact that things are getting progressively worse, and got blown off. So Coach Girl spoke to the kid's mother, and got blown off. Yesterday afternoon she spoke to the barn owner about the, you know, inability to lead her horse thing.

It's not that Coach Girl isn't trying. It's just that it's difficult to see what else she can do. And come to think of it, last time we were at the barn at the same time I mentioned to the kid that we need to keep the door closed in the heated tack room, and five minutes later she went into the tack room and walked out leaving the door wide open. I actually snapped at her that time, which got her attention for a second. And come to think of it, the only other time I recall our being out at the same time I mentioned nicely to her that she was doing something stupid (can't recall what) around Mitzi and she gave no sign she had even heard me until I said it again, more sharply.

So then the kid came back into the barn after her ride, or whatever. Last time I was out she was able to get on the mare and ride her where she was pointed at least--she was crooked and strung out and obviously green, but she went around. This week I looked out a couple of times in case of tragedy and the first time the kid was in the saddle, the second time she'd gotten off to longe some more. (She'd already longed before she came in to tack up.) I don't know if she got back on at all because she brought the mare in the barn with the longe line through the bridle like she'd just finished a session--and the rest of the line in big careless dragging loops that would be dangerous if she'd been leading the old palomino, let alone a horse she had demonstrated she could not, you know, lead.

And by this time I had given it some thought, and this is my thinking:

1) I have no actual authority in this situation, at all.

2) And everyone hates those nosy interfering people who nag you about your own horse as if you don't know what you're doing. I've run into some of them, and they annoy me too, especially when they make assumptions about me and my horse based on absolutely no information. I mean, truly some people just like to hear themselves talk and like to show off their alleged knowledge.

3) However, what everyone hates worse are the people who watch a dangerous situation develop, and say nothing, and then after the inevitable serious accident they go "I knew that was going to happen." And in this case, I would be one of them.

I normally give the barn kids credit for being pretty good horse people, and most of them are. But this kid appears to be a classic case of someone who has no idea how far in over her head she is, and a disaster of some sort is no longer an if, it's a when. Having the freelance coach speak to her and her mother nicely isn't making any dents, and when I spoke to her nicely it didn't make a dent either.

So when she came trailing in with big loops of longe line flapping around her feet I said flatly, "That's really dangerous, especially considering she's already broken loose from you three times today," and went about my business.

And I think that's what I'm going to keep on doing, and I'm going to speak to her mother in exactly the same way: just make factual "that's dangerous" statements whenever she does something dangerous. I don't know what else to do, aside from talking to the barn owner, which I think I will as well. Ordinarily when I feel compelled to offer advice I phrase it as "have you tried" or "you might consider," but what this kid appears to need is--and I never do this, but this is the situation--she appears to need to be disabused of the idea that she's competent and experienced and coping well with her horse. Because she's not. And the really alarming thing is, she doesn't even seem to know enough to know that all this is not normal, and is escalating to the point at which she, the mare, or someone else is going to get hurt.

I rarely indulge in catastrophic thinking, but it's hard to see how there can be another outcome if something doesn't change.

I just found a link to these tips for critiquing a story, and perhaps I should keep them in mind while critiquing this kid's horsemanship. Although I'm afraid that if I am too gentle and reasonable, I will be too easy to ignore. Given that this is what she's been doing all along. I mean, it's good, I guess, that she's not scared or intimidated, but that appears to be because she doesn't have the sense to realize there is anything wrong.

And there is a difference between trying to help a writer improve and trying to get through to a fourteen-year-old kid before she hurts herself or someone else. Damn.

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Comments

[info]green_knight wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 12:46 pm (UTC)
And there is a difference between trying to help a writer improve and trying to get through to a fourteen-year-old kid before she hurts herself or someone else.

Yeah. Tortured words will still work well for someone else, and nobody hears their screams.

This might be a good time to speak to the barn owner. And while I am generally in favour of gentleness, sometimes you *don't* get your point across, and when it comes to endangering other people and horses, you can't afford a laissez-faire attitude.

When your horse tries to walk ahead of you or nuzzles your pocket or doesn't step over, you'll ask them politely, and you might use your flat hand to gently push them away. When your horse barges at you, bites your pocket, or swings his quarters into you to get you out of the way, you'll use sharp words and you won't leave it ambiguous as to whether this is acceptable behaviour or not.

Your teen sounds as if she needs the same approach. If the parent supports her attitude, you've got an uphill struggle ahead at best :-(
[info]coneycat wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 12:51 pm (UTC)
Thanks. And yes, I had better speak to the barn owner. She knows things are not great, but she's not around all the time, especially since she broke her arm a couple of weeks ago, and things seem to be going downhill faster lately.

If the parent supports her attitude, you've got an uphill struggle ahead at best :-(

Yes. I think they both have an exaggerated idea of her abilities. And I think they are also congratulating her for managing with a troublesome horse, without realizing that the reason the horse is troublesome is the rider herself.

I hate confrontation, but I would hate myself worse if I didn't speak up. Argh.
[info]buymeaclue wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 01:05 pm (UTC)
This might be a good time to speak to the barn owner.

Nodnod. I was going to say that, too. She does have authority here, and if something happens to the kid or the mare, she may have a liability problem on her hands, so it'd be very much in her best interests to lay down the law a little: "You get help, or you get the mare out of my barn."

Hopefully, of course, it doesn't come to that. But man, if she and her mother (!!!) won't listen to the trainer, that's the next step.

(I'm also wondering--this is sneaky and I'm not sure advisable, since you don't want to get in the middle--if anyone knows the mare's owner enough to suggest she check up on things.)

I think your approach sounds reasonable, [Bad username: coneycat</i]. You don't want to be a jerk about it, of course, not that I think you'd ever be! As much as I believe in minding one's own business...it doesn't sound like a flat, short, "That's dangerous," is at all out of line here.

Looks like a cute mare, too. What a shame.
[info]coneycat wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 01:42 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I am feeling guilty for taking this long to notice there is a problem. Which is ridiculous, since I keep such strange hours I hadn't seen the kid in months, and it was only yesterday that I realized there was a pattern.

This is definitely a warning about off-property leases. I don't know the mare's owner and I don't know if anyone else does, either: the barn owner knew the kid in advance and I am sure she never anticipated her getting herself a horse she wasn't ready for when she moved on from the old paly!

So yeah--I think I'll email the owner this afternoon. The liability issue can't be ignored either.
[info]catseatsocks wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 01:21 pm (UTC)
Kid sounds like a spoiled princess who never does anything wrong. Can you tell I'm not really fond of other people's kids? :P (Ok, I like my friend's kids and my sister's, but that's it).
[info]coneycat wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 01:43 pm (UTC)
It's worse because she seems to be essentially an all-right kid, but the combination of spacey (which I normally find endearing) and a little too confident in her own abilities is not a good one here. (Can you tell I do like other people's kids? ;P)
[info]shalanna wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 03:22 pm (UTC)
I think you should definitely talk to the barn owner AND to the kid or her mom. After all, there's potential for the horse to hurt itself or someone else, and it's an immediate danger. It would be awful if the horse got ruined (I know nothing about this except what I glean from various people's journals, but I suspect that there's a window for teaching the horse, and it would be much tougher to "fix" a problem after it has developed.)

I wouldn't worry too much about tact--well, maybe a LITTLE bit. But the message has to get across! If you are the only one who'll force the issue, then . . . so be it, I guess. Bless your heart! I'll keep my fingers crossed that you figure out a way to get someone's buttons pushed before something happens (like a horse or a person getting injured!) After all, going back to the crit-manners comparison, whether I change my book's opening or not doesn't really impact the world too much . . . but if this horse hurts another horse, herself, or a person, it DOES impact the world. I'm afraid of horses already anyway (admire them from a goodly distance--same with the llamas at the farm on the corner of Park and Custer, and the ostriches out on the old highway, especially the ostriches, because I've heard they can really BITE), so it's really scary to think that somebody out there is that irresponsible. Shame on the MOTHER, really.

(Why do all the wrong people have enough money to get their spoiled brats a pony at that age?!?!)
[info]coneycat wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 04:07 pm (UTC)
Thanks, [info]shalanna. I sent the barn owner an email a little while ago and hopefully she'll be around when I go out tonight so I can clarify. I feel like such a tattletale, you know? But this is truly a case where I have to cowboy up and be the grownup!

And, again--she's not a bad kid. It's just they're novices. And normal novices would have gotten scared enough to do something by now. Sometimes it is NOT good to be brave!!
[info]green_knight wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 04:15 pm (UTC)
Sometimes it is NOT good to be brave!!

In kids it's much more often a case of having absolutely NO sense of danger. The daughter of a friend of mine rode into town and through the drive through at McDonalds.

On a half-broken horse that rarely got hacked, let alone along a main road.

And she honestly could not see what was wrong with that, anymore than I could see what was wrong in taking a horse that had been on box rest away from the barn for photographs. He got away, I caught him again, nothing happened, nobody knew - but GODS was I made of the stupid that day.
[info]coneycat wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 04:24 pm (UTC)
Great icon!

Because I started to ride in my twenties, when I was beginning to be aware of my own mortality, I don't always consider the bulletproof viewpoint so many kids have. For a while. I suspect this is it: nothing bad has happened so far, so the kid isn't afraid or thinking of what could happen, and the mother doesn't know enough to realize none of this is normal. (I assume the mother doesn't know anything about horses, because if she does there is no excuse for any of this.)
[info]green_knight wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 05:44 pm (UTC)
For me it was a case of utter unawareness that something bad *could* happen. And it wasn't as if horses hadn't pulled away from me, or that I didn't know that a horse that had come off boxrest would be fresh, but he was about to be sold and I wanted a picture and the yard was dark wood which made a lousy background for a dark chestnut, so I went to take him down to where there was fresh grass and space...

I guess that having been there, I know *exactly* how kids see danger - and I was an intelligent, usually danger-aware (and rather cautious) kid, not a daredevil.

The parent... I've encountered those, too; and really, adults have no business *NOT* reading a horsey book or five before they pay for their kid to have a horse. My mum had maybe fifty riding lessons in her life; but when it came to picking a stable she went for the one where she felt that there was a regimen of discipline, an emphasis on teaching everything around horses (not just riding), and a general air of cleanlyness and order.

It happened to be an exceptional stable. Nobody could have predicted *that*, but even a complete non-horsey person can learn to recognise *some* alarm bells.

And quite frankly, letting your fourteen-year-old work out something completely on their own without any lessons is not sensible; and when an instructor tells you that your kid is enangering herself, then getting snotty is extraordinarily stupid. But I've met the parents who think that out-of-control horses, trampled kids and falls are part of the course. If the kid brings home ribbons and is admired by their friends, all the better.

Heck, I've known _adults_ who think nothing of their horse charging them in the pasture ('she's a strong character'), taking off ('she loves a good canter, we always have a blast here' - heck, I own a confirmed bolter and I had more control!) and other things more. So, yeah, I'm not surprised the parent doesn't show sense :-(

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